Convention of States: “Break Glass and Pull in Case of Emergency”

Audio By Carbonatix

Published: March 16, 2022 | Date of Source Audio: March 10, 2022

Transcribed and modified for publication from the original audio program

Eric Metaxas talks with Senator Rick Santorum about how the Constitution can save America

Eric Metaxas: Rick Santorum, welcome to this program.

Senator Rick Santorum: Thank you, Eric. …

Metaxas: There's a number of things I want to talk to you about. I want to talk to you about current events, but you are involved in what's called the Convention of States.

Santorum. Yes.

Metaxas: There are a lot of people listening to this program that don't understand anything about that. If you don't mind, explain what that is.

Santorum: I'd love to, because about eight months ago, I didn't know very much about it. I mean, I'd heard of Convention of States. I knew that it was an issue.  But all I knew about Convention of States was that it was a dramatic, sort of “break glass and pull in case of emergency” provision that was included in the Constitution.

And that, at least when I had first heard about it, I didn't think we were there yet. And candidly, you know, I've seen some things happen in the past few years that have really concerned me that we're seeing even more than normal. I mean, I was always, you know, I've written books, I've been out of the campaign trail talking about the decline in the culture and what's happening in Washington, the increasing authoritarianism in Washington. But we've reached a whole new level. I mean, $30 trillion in debt. And candidly, both parties seeming unwilling to be concerned about federal authority or federal spending or anything when it comes to the power that's located in Washington D.C. …

Metaxas: …The Convention of States, again, for people that aren't familiar with it, because some people are, but many are not – where do we get this idea?

“We need to do something about Washington because I am convinced Washington can’t fix itself.”

Santorum. Yeah. Okay, let me just get that. So, I was at a point in my life where I'm thinking, okay, we need to do something about Washington because I am convinced Washington can’t fix itself. And so a friend of mine, a guy named Mark Meckler, when I had just been fired from CNN, or canceled, I guess it's really the best way –  

Metaxas: Did you do something horrible, like speak the truth?

Santorum: Yeah. I did, I did. I told the truth.

Metaxas: Shame on you. CNN, what are you even thinking?

Santorum: And so I was saying … what am I going to do? I want to stay involved in the fight. And I talked to Mark and he said, Hey, you know, I've seen you giving these speeches about your concern about authoritarianism and what's going on in Washington … he said there's an answer that the Founders created. It's in Article 5 of the Constitution. It's called a Convention of States. And I said, yeah, I sort of know about it, don't know too much about it. And so he provided me a bunch of information and sort of, let's just say, I read myself into the church …

Metaxas: … And most people have never heard about this. In other words, it's kind of there, it's almost like a poison pill or it's like one of those things – if things go really bad, break glass.

Santorum: Exactly, it is.

Metaxas: If things get really bad, break the glass and there's a hammer or there's a button or there's a something. The Convention of States and Article 5 in the Constitution, it's there – if things get really bad, the states can have a convention. We’ve never had one in 250 years.

Santorum: No, we have not. And I would just say to any of your listeners, do you think we're not there?

Metaxas: My listeners can't answer, but on their behalf, let me say, I think we're there.

Santorum: Yeah. And so that's the conclusion that I made. And so I looked at this and said, okay, what are the upsides and the downsides of this? Because you know, this is sort of an emergency provision. Now I don’t know if the Founders looked at it that way, but I think most people who look at it today do. And here's what it is. There are two ways to amend the Constitution. One is Congress can propose amendments. And the second – never been used, as you mentioned – is the state legislatures can pass a resolution. Two-thirds of the state legislatures – 34 state legislatures – can pass a resolution calling for a convention to propose amendments to the Constitution.

So in a sense, take the place of Congress, who can now propose amendments to the Constitution. But create a convention where each state will come – whether you voted for it or not – all 50 states are invited to come. Every state, because it's a sovereign entity unto itself, gets one vote. They will each appoint delegations –

Metaxas: So this is like the Constitutional Convention of 1787 –

Santorum: Except it is limited to what the resolution says it's limited to. Because the resolution prescribes the germane amendments that are permitted during this convention. Okay? It is not a constitutional convention to write a constitution. It is a convention of the states to propose amendments to the constitution. And so, you can limit the subject matter, which this resolution does, to three things. So these are the three things. …

Number one, amendments can be proposed to limit the terms of congressmen, senators and other federal officials –  

Metaxas: You only get to steal one term as president? That would be fair.

Santorum: (Laughing) Number two, to limit the spending power of the federal government. So balanced budget, tax limitation, spending limitation. Number three, to limit the power and jurisdiction of the federal government. …

Metaxas: … So this is a fascinating concept. I mean, for anybody who understands anything about how our government works, the idea that these founders, nearly 250 years ago – Gouverneur Morris, Mason and others – that they saw that we might need to be able to do this.

Santorum: Yeah, George Mason was the big proponent of this. He was the one who was very much afraid of federal power. He ended up voting against the Constitution as you may recall. But he was very strident on this point. And Gouverneur Morris and Elbridge Gerry both came forward with this amendment to satisfy him. He still didn’t vote for it, but that was the purpose behind it. And by the way, there was no debate on the amendment. None. They approved without comment.

Metaxas: In 1787.

Santorum: Yeah. … Eighteen states have adopted this resolution.

Metaxas: And how many do we need?

Santorum: Thirty-four.

Metaxas: And so simply by talking about it on this program, we're increasing the odds.

Santorum: Absolutely.

Metaxas: When we come back, we will continue my conversation with Senator Rick Santorum of the great state of Pennsylvania.